AcadianaMOO
acadianamoo.org, port 6556
AcadianaMOO
[log started Thu Feb 8 17:35:15 2007 CST]
Participants: Keith, M_Barton, <Klint4>, christyneberzsenyi, Luke,
kairosdoug, ceball, Susan, <Vicky>, Joanne, Jim, and OoglyBooglyBoo
Keith turns the Bayou Room Recorder on.
Keith leaves.
M_Barton arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
M_Barton leaves.
<Klint4> arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "hello, all, and what's the topic here? current research?"
<Klint4> says, "is this the room for jobs?""
Keith says, "it is now!"
Keith says, "and I'll be right back"
christyneberzsenyi arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith leaves.
christyneberzsenyi says, "what is the subject for this room, please?"
Luke arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "hello"
christyneberzsenyi says, "hi"
Keith says, "this is jobs, right?"
Keith laughs
christyneberzsenyi says, "I hope so"
Keith says, "well, now it is"
<Klint4> says, "sweet, jobs it is""
Keith says, "let's start by talking about our current releationship to
the market"
Keith is tenured, and up for associate professor and is serving on a
search committee. This is his third search committee
<Klint4> says, "myself, first year grad student who is targeting the
Comm. College world after graduating."
<Klint4> says, "at least for a few years.""
christyneberzsenyi says, "on sabbatical and tenured, I'm not close to a
job market at this time. I've served on hiring committees."
Keith [to <Klint4>]: I did that at one point
kairosdoug arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
christyneberzsenyi says, "I interviewed for a comm college job last
year"
Keith says, "look for comm community jobs I mean"
Luke is a 1st year grad student, former HS ENGL teacher, just back from
Hawaii, aiming to go overseas after the MA.
Keith says, "this is the jobs room!"
kairosdoug says, "excellent"
kairosdoug [to Luke]: where overseas?
christyneberzsenyi (to Luke) "what type of teaching overseas. high
school? college?"
Luke says, "College. I met some guys in HI who had taught college
w/just an MA in Japan."
Keith says, "oh yeah, that's a huge and hot market"
ceball arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
christyneberzsenyi says, "cool, luke"
Keith says, "hi this is jobs!!"
Susan arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Luke says, "Good money, respect from students, great food and
culture...dunno though."
Keith says, "hello, this is jobs"
Keith [to Luke]: dunno why? it sounds good
ceball is glad to be in jobs. Jobs is cool.
christyneberzsenyi says, "you nutshelled some priorities in the job
well, Luke"
Susan are nice things ot have :)
Susan slaps her forehead
Luke is not in it for the cash, but would like to make a living wage.
ceball snickers at susan
Susan says, "Jobs are nice things to have."
kairosdoug says, "although I don't have one, I understand that Susans
are nice things to have as well"
Susan grins
Luke hears that in Japan, businessmen buy you lunch and give you $50
for 1/2 hours, just to practice their english.
ceball (to Luke) "making a living wage is a good thing to ask for,
although in our line of work, it isn't always as livable as we'd like"
Keith says, " you can make a lotta money there"
Keith says, "and then come back for the Phd at any time"
[ 5:45 pm ]
Susan says, "wait. I can make it relate: remember that even though you
may be looking for jobs, the people hiring are looking for what they
need, too. Finding a good fit is very important for everyone
involved."
Keith warns folks that coming back AFTER the PhD is complete may be
more difficult
kairosdoug [to Luke]: you should see if you can find others who have
done that who can help you make connections -- see if there's someone
with experience with the JET program for instance.
Keith [to Susan]: fit is my most important criteria
<Vicky> arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "hi, Vicky"
Joanne arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "this is the room in which we are discussing the job
market"
<Vicky> says, "I heard that Chinese teaching is a new program no""
kairosdoug is trying to decide where he fits
<Vicky> says, "hi,Keith'""
Keith says, "the crowd in the vermilion is talking about admissions to
the Phd"
ceball is trying to figure out all the ways she can make a joke out of
kairosdoug's last comment
<Vicky> says, "hihi, Joanne""
<Klint4> says, "so does anyone know the average age of todays English
Profs?""
Susan pins on her independent scholar badge
Keith says, "five million and four"
Joanne says, "how are you, Vickie""
<Vicky> says, "40 years old?""
Keith says, "seriously, we tend to be older"
Keith says, ""
ceball says, "i don't think the MLA report on PhD grads/tenure-track
folks tracks age"
Keith says, "nationwide... but that's changing with retirement"
ceball says, "but i could be wrong"
Keith says, "we've replaced half of our faculty in the last seven years
due to retirements"
<Klint4> says, "I've heard closer to 50+ right now. Filled with
upcoming retirements""
Luke wonders if SocialSec will explode.
Keith has been on three search committees in six years
Keith says, "maybe more, I mighta forgot one or two"
<Vicky> says, "in Taiwan, professors probably need to be 65 to
retire.""
Keith says, "well, of course that's an option, but it's a great time to
get a tenure track position"
christyneberzsenyi says, "I have also served on several over the years
and find the candidates to be generally 40 or older"
Keith says, "of course those vary from school to school, especially in
terms of teaching load and scholarly expectation"
ceball says, "in comp/rhet, I still get the sense that there's not
enough candidates for all the jobs"
kairosdoug says, "most of the places I went this year were re-building
after retirements and moves, and there are plenty of folks that are
getting into retirement range as well"
Keith nods at christyne
Keith [to ceball]: true, though some areas are better than others
ceball winks at keith
Joanne says, "I don't know the professors' age to retire""
Keith [to Joanne]: there is none
Luke says, "How many of you PhD folks taught elem-mid-sec before going
to grad school?"
kairosdoug . o O ( maybe I shoulda waited 2 more years )
ceball (to Luke) "not me."
christyneberzsenyi says, "honestly, when I've been on committees and
there is discussion about prior elementary school experience, it
hasn't been something members consider as a defiite plus in their
favor. They're looking to see if they are able to make the transition
to a different student population, perhaps with some skepticism"
ceball (to Luke) "do you have k-12 teaching experience already? is that
why you asked?"
Luke says, "to ceball 3 years teaching high school..."
ceball says, "because one of hte benefits of having that experience is
the cross-listed English Education positions that English depts often
hire."
Keith [to christyneberzsenyi]: prior university teaching would be a
plus though, especially if they picked up a grad seminar somewhere
ceball says, "this year I've heard of several English Ed positions not
getting enough applicants because they wanted that k-12 experience and
lots of folks don't have it anymore"
christyneberzsenyi (to Keith) "i agree"
Luke says, "COOL."
Keith says, "that's the hardest thing of all -- learning how to put
that very intensive experience together..."
ceball (to Luke) "so having that experience plus a PhD in English or
Education would make for a very hot hire"
christyneberzsenyi (to ceball) "I don't have any experience with
english ed searches. That makes sense"
Keith [to ceball]: there it would certainly be a plus, if not a
requirement of the position
ceball nods
ceball also knows that she could never teach k-12 because she'd wrap
her hands around the little buggers' necks
christyneberzsenyi says, "I don't think that someone wouldn't be hired
with elementary experience. I just think it's a good idea to be
prepared for that discussion that you are very aware with the student
population different and so on "
<Klint4> says, "any ideas for those who haven't taught yet as to what
to target before heading towards a PHD?""
christyneberzsenyi says, "There's no way I could teach elementary ed
either"
[ 5:55 pm ]
<Vicky> says, "Indeed, the teaching experiences in the K-12 are very
important.""
ceball (to <Klint4>) "i searched hte chronicle ads before I went to a
PhD program, to see what folks were interested in that jived with my
interests"
<Klint4> says, "sweet""
Keith [to <Klint4>]: i can tell you what I look for in job candidates
ceball says, "the key is to choose something you want to study for 4-6
or so years AND that you'll be happy doing the rest of your life AND
that will get you hired quickly. :)"
Jim arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith [to <Klint4>]: in terms of teaching, scope and breadth -- I want
them to have done a number of preps in a number of areas, if possible
ceball says, "hi jim!"
Luke says, "Aloha, Jim."
Keith says, "hi, Jim"
Jim says, "hello, all"
ceball (to Keith) "but often that's hard for entry-level folks to have
done, yes?"
<Klint4> says, "so comp. Rhet sounds like a hot market right now.
Those on the hiring commities, anything else that opens doors./""
Jim says, "sorry to be late"
ceball (to <Klint4>) "teaching with technology, in some form (although
often the hiring committees won't know exactly what they WANT from a
person who does this, just that they know they should ask for it"
Keith [to <Klint4>]: i dont know i think of it that way for two reasons
Luke tends to think that profs who have gone straight K-PhD aren't
often the best w/class disc, or dealing with weirdos.
Keith [to <Klint4>]: first, you should do what you love... and then
convince someone to hire you to do it
ceball thinks she's a weirdo herself, so does well with class
discussion.
Luke nods.
christyneberzsenyi says, "for a universit that is interested in
teaching as well as research, committees look for candidates who can
bring the two together in mutually reinforcing ways"
Keith [to <Klint4>]: and second, you can't be sure what the market will
want. Such and such state school will want you to have secondary
skills in the Renaissance because their drama scholar just left for
the U of God Knows Where... you can't predict that
Keith [to <Klint4>]: and different schools have different needs... just
do good work, make sure you publish, have at least two areas, and
teach lots of preps...
christyneberzsenyi says, "as I went from K-ph.d I did not relate well
to unmotivated students and those who just wanted to get by. It took
me an adustment"
ceball says, "i agree with Christyne, although I also think that
there's two different standards (which is a good thing, imho) for
entry-level profs vs. those who have some experience. The need to tie
the two togther (researrch and teaching) is more easly done with some
experience already."
Luke says, "Is there any hiring preference toward alums or people
w/friends in high places?"
christyneberzsenyi (to ceball) "agree"
ceball (to Luke) "the only place i've seen preferences like that are at
small, insular schools"
Luke hmms.
<Klint4> says, "do you see the university student population size being
a factor on if a school is more research than academic""
christyneberzsenyi says, "well penn state has a huge alumni association
and they tend to like to give them a good look over, but I haven't
seen any kind of unfair selection of alums"
ceball (to Luke) "let me clarify -- for instance, it's hard to get
folks to stay at USU because of the local culture (if folks don't
already participate in the local culture) and so it's sorta brownie
points if you understand that coming in."
Keith [to Luke]: no, but we do like people who have lived in or
attended school in the south
Keith [to Luke]: believe me it takes getting used to!
Keith [to ceball]: exactly!
ceball knows exactly what Keith means re getting used to the South. She
misses it.
Luke nods, and eats a buffalo wing wrapped in gator meat.
christyneberzsenyi says, "True, the local culture is an important
factor in trying to assess if a candidate would be happy living and
working at the campus"
Susan (to ceball) "where is USU?"
ceball (to Susan) "Logan"
Keith [to Luke]: at this time of year, ti would be King Cake
Susan forgot what the leeters mean
ceball (to Susan) "Utah"
Susan says, "got it"
Luke likes crawdads.
Keith [to Luke]: it's Mardi Gras season. I do love gator though
christyneberzsenyi says, "it's always a mutual fit for jobs--candidates
to job/department/university/local region and visa versa"
Keith says, "so that's how it seems from our point of view"
ceball says, "Klint, or someone asked about school size relating to
resarch/teaching. that's a good question."
kairosdoug [to Luke]: well, there is a kind of Purdue-network that
seems to hire alums from there ;)
<Klint4> says, "thanks""
Susan says, "Load matters. Do not do a 5/5 if you want to also do
research."
Keith says, "and I've been saying this forever, and it seems impossible
but don't take a rejection personally -- somethimes the interview goes
swimmingly and then you get a rejection letter months later and you
think what the hell??? but it's often a matter of fit with secondary
areas"
christyneberzsenyi says, "I would also advise to do your homework about
the university, the department, course offerings, and the local region
before writing a letter of application and certainly before the
interview. It makes a good impression to know them."
Luke says, "5/5?"
ceball (to <Klint4>) "it's changing, i think -- the ratio of students
to research-intensive universities."
Susan says, "it is possible, but likly to be very difficult/unhealthy
to cram that uch into one schedule."
<Vicky> says, "what is 5/5""
Susan says, "The number of courses one teaches"
Susan says, "so five in the fall, and 5 in the spring"
Luke ahs.
Jim says, "teaching 5 courses each semester"
Keith [to ceball]: oh yes! there are differnt schools with different
purposes and they have different tenure requirements. Folks need to
know waht's expected.
<Vicky> says, "I see""
Keith says, "graduate faculty here teach 3/2"
Joanne says, "Do many schools need foreign language professors, such as
Chinese, Spanish or Japanese?""
ceball (to <Klint4>) "there's a TON of schools that now consider
themselves Research Intensive places whose student population has
dramatically increased (in some cases doubled, from 10K to 20K in the
last 10-15 years). It's a weird combination because often they don't
pay what you might expect an R1 to pay"
Keith says, "but we had BETTER publish"
[ 6:05 pm ]
Keith says, "if not, we go to 4/4"
kairosdoug [to ceball]: there does seem to be a push from the R2s to be
more like R1s
Keith [to ceball]: research intensive has been split into two
categories by the Carnegie this last year.
ceball (to Joanne) "yes, language profs are needed, but it's incredibly
harder to get a job in a language dept (see the MLA report on job
placement)"
Jim says, "Some schools with higher teaching loads also seem to be
increasing their publication demands"
Keith says, "research intensive with high research activity"
kairosdoug says, "lots of presidents and provosts are pushing research"
Luke wonders if you have to publish academic works, or is
fiction/poetry also acceptable...
Keith says, "and research intensive with very high research activity"
ceball nods to Jim and kairosdoug
Luke just had his question answered....
Keith [to Luke]: that depends on what you get hired to do
Keith says, "and on the school"
Luke nods.
christyneberzsenyi says, "some state schools expect a 4/4 with
research, which is a lot. In practice, I'm not sure to what extent
they hold their faculty to it and tenure them"
Keith says, "if you get hired as a fiction writer in a creative writing
program, you'd better publish fiction!"
Luke would love that.
<Vicky> says, "nod""
ceball (to Luke) "ditto what Keith said. If you get hired to do
creative writing, then you're expected to publish creative writing.
some schools will allow you to do both academic publishing and
creative publishing, but from what i Understand that's often smaller,
liberal arts schools and/or private schools that want you teaching a
bunch of stuff too"
Keith [to Luke]: but if you are in a place like mine, a research
intensive with high activity, you can do lots and have it all count
Susan currently has 5/5 and finds that it leaves very little time for
sleep, much less research.
christyneberzsenyi says, "I have a 3/3 load with a reasonable
research/publication expectation--more than a teaching school but less
than a R1--such as penn state main campus"
Keith is in the creative writing faculty and directs creative
dissertations!
Susan says, "so make sure you understand how much of a course load you
can handle."
ceball thinks that is cool that Keith gets to do that!
Luke says, "That'd be interesting."
ceball knows USU is an odd bird, having just migrated to R1 status but
already has a 2-2 load.
Joanne says, "how to see it? Can I just google the MLA report?""
Susan . o O ( 2/2 sounds nice )
ceball (to Joanne) "yes, go to mla.org and then look under their
reports/publications section."
ceball (to Susan) "that's definitely a benefit of the job"
Keith [to ceball]: it is!!! but my school is amazingly open to
crossover which is why I am not likely to leave here
Keith says, "usually you have to choose between freedom with a larger
teaching load or specialization with a lower load"
ceball says, "cross-over is important to some folks, and some want to
specialize. It's impt to figure out which you are when you go on the
market."
Keith [to ceball]: yep
<Klint4> says, "can I ask again what school Keith is at? Who is at
USU""
Keith says, "for me, cross-over is very important"
kairosdoug is sorry he missed it, but perhaps we could re-do
introductions at this point?
Keith says, "The University of Louisiana at Lafayette"
kairosdoug says, "say, name and school :)"
<Klint4> says, "thank you""
Joanne says, "I see it, thank you""
ceball says, "Cheryl Ball at Utah State U"
kairosdoug says, "Doug Eyman, Michigan State U"
Susan is Susan Antlitz, currently at LeTourneau U
Luke notes that Barton is running to get coffee, then will make us
logoff shortly after that.
Susan . o O ( until May )
Keith says, "we offer the MA and Phd in English with concentrations in
folkore, linguistics, rhetoric and creative writing as well as our
default, cultural and literay studies"
Keith says, "and I'm Keith Dorwick"
Jim says, "Jim is at Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania"
ceball hugs Jim, now that she knows which Jim ;)
christyneberzsenyi (to Jim) "we aren't too far from each other"
Luke is forced out of the room, by guards with batons, "Nice chatting
with you all, thanks and take care."
ceball (to Susan) "and after May, where might you be?"
<Klint4> says, "Thank you all, We are redirecting to other work at
Saint Cloud State.""
kairosdoug says, "I didn't realize USU was an R1"
Luke leaves.
Susan (to ceball) "not sure yet."
Jim says, "catching up with an earlier question--if you are the token
writing person, you have the chance to be involved in many areas but
expectations are also high"
ceball says, "bye Klint. bye luke!"
kairosdoug says, "then again, I thought ILSTU was, but it's an R2"
<Vicky> hugs Joanne
ceball says, "thanks for coming guys!"
ceball says, "vicky and joanne, y'all have to go too?"
<Klint4> has disconnected.
Jim [to ceball]: "back at you ;-)
<Vicky> says, "Thanks for the infromation. Yes, we are leaving 2 "
Keith says, "THANKS!"
Keith says, "If you want a transcript, please type ask recorder for
text before leaving"
ceball says, "bye y'all!"
Joanne says, "give a hug to Vikie too""
Susan (to ceball) "I go to independent scholar-hood."
kairosdoug waves to everyone departing and staying
<Vicky> has disconnected.
ceball (to kairosdoug) "we are JUST barely R1"
christyneberzsenyi waving goodbye
ceball (to Susan) "so are you looking now? or are you going to take
some time off?"
kairosdoug [to Susan]: independent scholar-hood can be rewarding -- I
did that for several years
Joanne has disconnected.
ceball says, "and Beth is an independent scholar, part by choice, part
by circumstnace I think."
kairosdoug [to Susan]: well, that is, in addition to having a "real
job" (aka one which required my presence in a cube 8 hours a day)
[ 6:15 pm ]
Susan (to ceball) "tie off would be nice. I'd kind of like a job where
ai do not have to take work hoe with me, and then I will have time to
get back in touch with the research/schlarship I want to do."
Susan says, "m"
Susan says, "there were some missing m's in that last post."
Susan plugs them in
Susan grins
ceball says, "i like the short, sweet M"
kairosdoug says, "I was thinking when I applied for PhD programs that
it would great to go to all the schools I applied to over the course
of four years...and now I want to do that with jobs too!"
Keith says, "we seem to be winding down"
Keith says, "Shall I turn the recorder off?"
ceball (to Keith) "sure"
OoglyBooglyBoo arrives from the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "hello"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "hewwo"
Keith says, "we seem to be done here"
[log closed]