AcadianaMOO
acadianamoo.org, port 6556
AcadianaMOO
[log started Thu Feb 8 19:12:35 2007 CST]
Participants: Mak, OoglyBooglyBoo, Keith, kiwi, Susan, ceball, booboo,
mday, Quirk, kairosdoug, LL, JenniferB, and JoelB
Keith turns the Southwestern Cafe Recorder on.
kiwi readies herself.
kairosdoug has connected.
Keith says, "Greetings all! and welcome to the 7c Town Hall..."
Quirk (to kiwi) "it's me, Sarah--I figured the last name was more
memorable"
kiwi grins at Quirk.
Keith says, "so that we can figure out who to ask what, I'd like to ask
the 7csers to introduce themselves first... then the task force then
everyone else"
Keith says, "not because of hierarchy but just so to know to whom to
introduce a question"
ceball says, "I'm Cheryl Ball, at Utah State, co-chair with mday of
7Cs."
Keith says, "7cs first, please!"
mday is Michael Day, Co-Chair, 7Cs
kiwi is Janice Walker, Georgia Southern University.
Keith is Keith dorwick of the University of Louisiana at Lafayette
kairosdoug is Douglas Eyman, Michigan State University
Quirk says, "Quirk is Sarah Quirk, Waubonsee Community College in
Illinois""
Keith says, "cool......"
Keith says, "and now, please, any task force members"
mday says, "Doug was here..."
Keith says, "he's back"
Keith doesn't see any task force members right now
Keith says, "ok and everyone else please"
ceball where'd jennifer go?
mday says, "jennifer is"
Keith says, "she is coming"
booboo is Jane Lasarenko, Slippery Rock University of PA
Susan Antlitz is here
ceball learns how to emote
kiwi grins at ceball.
OoglyBooglyBoo is Kevin Moberly, St. Cloud State University
Mak is Melissa Kizina of the University of Louisiana at Lafayette
LL is Lei Lani Michel, PhD student at the University of Washington
OoglyBooglyBoo (to ceball) "type :<emote message> it's fun"
Keith laughs, then slaps oogly
JenniferB steps into the Southwestern Cafe.
JenniferB says, "back! and with a name!"
Keith says, "hello, Jennifer, if you could introduce yourself, please"
Keith says, "with affliation!"
mday cheers for JenniferB
kiwi sneaks around deleting < > (DOWN WITH ANGLE BRACKETS!)
Susan grins at kiwi
JenniferB is Jennifer Bowie, Assistant Professor at Georgia State
University and Co-7Cs Task Force Chair
Keith says, "there we go, that's everyone"
ceball claps for everyone
mday cheers for all
kiwi cheers.
Mak nods
Keith says, "ok, this is just a chance for us to talk... and for
everyone to find out what the 7cs is"
JenniferB smiles at everyone
ceball thinks we're a cheery crowd, heehee.
Keith says, "we're tied to cccc of course"
kiwi nods to ceball.
Keith says, "being that we're the committee on computers and
composition of the 4cs!"
kiwi [to Keith]: tied is such a nasty word
Keith says, "so you think"
Keith grins an evil grin
ceball says, "don't forget communication!"
Keith says, "thank you"
ceball says, "we're actually the 8Cs, but that just got too confusing
for everyone"
JenniferB laughs
Keith says, "the eighth c of the seven cs!"
kiwi says, "CCC Committee on Computers in Composition and
Communication, right?"
Mak [to Keith] gee whiz
Keith nods
ceball nods
Keith says, "so, that leads us to our first question"
ceball says, "whew!"
Keith says, "what is the mission?"
kiwi says, "So, it IS 7 Cs (duh)"
JoelB steps into the Southwestern Cafe.
Keith says, "why do we exist?"
mday says, "Yah, and one of our main duties is to help make sure the
online and onsite CW conferences happen"
Keith says, "hello, Joelb"
Susan missed what the 8th C was
kiwi nods to mday.
Keith says, "communication"
kiwi [to mday]: and to coordinate the Computer Connection at CCCC?
mday says, "and another is to make the Computer"
mday says, "what kiwi said"
Keith [to JoelB]: could you introduce yourself?
LL eyes crosses at CCCCCCCC (8Cs)
ceball says, "it's actually the CCCC cmte on computeres in composition
and communication."
kiwi grins at mday.
Keith [to LL]: yeah
kiwi [to mday]: sorry, twin
Keith [to ceball]: I'll make a note!
mday says, "no prob. It gets said one way or another."
Quirk grin
Keith submits a name change request to the executive committee while no
one is looking.
Susan . o O ( new math )
kiwi says, "It's a lot of Cs anyway!"
ceball wonders about the cmte
mday says, "We have had a new charge added to our mission, Open Source
Opens Thinking"
kiwi [to mday]: really?
kiwi has disconnected.
mday says, "Well, it was added almost a year ago, I think"
Keith says, "so this project that Kevin Moberly and I are co-chairing
is answerable to the committee and one of its projects, as is Detroit
later this year"
Keith [to mday]: I guess Kiwi didn't like that.
kairosdoug . o O ( wow, that really knocked kiwi out )
OoglyBooglyBoo takes the blame
kiwi has connected.
mday says, "she probably got clicked off"
Keith says, "wow"
kiwi says, "Arrgh. Sorry all"
ceball (to Keith) "answerable is kinda, um, i'm thikning of a better
word...."
Keith says, "got upset at the new charge, Kiwi?"
ceball says, "it"
kiwi grins at Keith.
Keith nods, seems to be coming up with a lotta institutional langauge
today
kiwi [to Keith]: no, i'm just stupid and clicked where I shoulda
clunked.
JenniferB waves to kiwi
kiwi waves to JenniferB.
mday says, "7Cs does the soliciting of proposals and voting on the
conferences."
ceball says, ""
Keith chaired the study abroad committee of his university today!
mday says, "But ultimately,"
[ 7:22 pm ]
Keith says, "they like that stuff!"
ceball says, "we are liaisons to making sure things happen re the
conferences"
kiwi nods to ceball.
mday says, "since CCCC really isn't the sponsor of the conferences"
Mak wishes she would have submitted a course proposal on time
booboo says, "that's what i was going to ask, mday"
JenniferB nods to ceball too
Keith nods
booboo says, "since when is 4Cs involved in the CW conferences?"
kiwi wonders why we're a CCCC's committee anyway
mday says, "the individuals and institutions are responsible for the
conferences"
Mak nods back
Keith [to booboo]: always, actually
booboo says, "i'm trying to remember...."
mday says, "CCCC only has limited involvement."
ceball (to kiwi) "because we give back to the larger composition
community."
Keith [to kiwi]: I do too
mday [to kiwi]: it's historic
booboo says, "i remember when we were first debating tying our tails to
CCCC"
kiwi nods.
Susan (to kiwi) "to get meetings listed in the CCCC programs?"
booboo says, "more closely"
kiwi [to Susan]: yeah, i remember that--and the Computer Connection
mday says, "They provide an official home for the committee and the CC"
ceball says, "at least that's how I envision the 7Cs mission -- while
we are responsible for making sure the C&W conferences happen, it's
also in our charge to diseminate (sp) info on teaching with technology
(etc) to the field at large."
kiwi nods to ceball.
Keith [to ceball]: here's a s
JenniferB nods to Ceball
mday says, "But not the conferences. They also fund our award, the
Technology Innovator Award"
kiwi [to ceball]: yes, important function, definitely
Keith says, "yes"
booboo says, "yes"
ceball wonders why she cannot type properly anymore.
mday . o O ( what cheryl said )
Quirk says, "great history lesson!"
JenniferB never could type properly
OoglyBooglyBoo cvan't type period
Susan says, "when was the 7C's started?"
Keith says, "yeah, it's useful because it's before my time... I started
doing this stuff around, what, 1990 or so?"
ceball says, "there's actually some fascinating history that helped me
alot on the NCTE/CCCC official 7Cs website."
JenniferB smiles at OoglyBooglyBoo
kairosdoug [to ceball]: your extra s's went away with my missing e and
Susan's m's
mday says, "Past chairs are Bill Condon, Fred Kemp, Eric Crump, Traci
Gardner, Dickie Selfe, among others"
kiwi started around 95 I think, on the task force.
Keith [to ceball]: do yu have the link to hand? If so you could post it
and it will go live
Keith says, "then we can watch everyone who clicks it get booted!"
mday started on the task force about 93.
mday grins at Keith
ceball says, ""
Keith says, "hmm"
kiwi says, "This one? http://www.ncte.org/cccc/gov/committees/7cs"
Keith says, "maybe it was later"
kairosdoug also started on the task force (which was sorta synchronous
with ACW)
ceball says, "dangit. my fingeres keep slipping on the Enter key"
kiwi nods to kairosdoug.
Susan (to Keith) "tkMOO boots no one :)"
OoglyBooglyBoo wishes somebody else could program in java so they could
try programming a java client and watch everybody complain about iut
:(
kiwi grins at OoglyBooglyBoo.
Keith says, "but jaMOOKa doesn't accept bad port numbers"
mday says, "yes, but with ACW sort of gone the 7Cs has an important
role to fill"
ceball laughs with/at? ooggly
mday says, "thus computersandwriting.org"
kiwi nods to mday.
JenniferB pats OoglyBooglyBoo on the back
Susan grins at oogly
mday says, "which is not 7Cs, but came out of a task force meeting at a
CW conference"
booboo asks about computersandwriting.org
ceball says, "yes, i like that task force members and other folks can
interact with the 7Cs info on the C&W.org website"
Keith seems to remembers someone couldn't connect due to a bad alias
she typed... oh, who could it be?
Keith [to ceball]: the existence of the task force is key
Quirk says, "great site--loads of into"
mday says, "Folks wanted a single place to find info about the yearly
CW conferences, and the answer was computersandwriting.org"
ceball nods
Susan grins at keith
booboo says, "great"
kiwi nods to mday.
JenniferB agrees with Quirk
mday says, "and it's a place for putting up the calls for the
conferences, and other various and sundry announcements and discussion
related to the CW conferences."
ceball says, "we are lucky that Jennifer and Bob Whipple stepped up to
co-chair the Task force. That's a new thing for the 7Cs -- to have
folks leading the way."
kiwi says, "Someone told me today they checked their for info on this
CWOnline conference, though, and couldn't find it."
JenniferB blushes slightly
mday cheers for Jennifer and Bob
kiwi . o O ( there )
Keith [to kiwi]: that's true, actually
kiwi cheer jennifer and bob
Keith says, "whoo hoo"
kiwi . o O ( man, this bad typing stuff is catching )
OoglyBooglyBoo started it
ceball (to kiwi) "the C&Worg site can function as a clearinghouse for
C&W-related information, but it's up to folks to help us dissemenate
the info on that site."
Keith says, "we forgot about that"
JenniferB (to kiwi) "it is contagious"
booboo says, "looks like a terrific site"
kiwi nods to ceball.
mday says, "Now and then things fall through the cracks. The main
thing is that when people notice something missing, to make sure we
know, and better yet, to volunteer to get it done."
JenniferB agrees with ceball
kairosdoug [to Keith]: we can certainly post the schedule on
computersandwritingonline
ceball says, "that's one reason why we want to see the funtionality of
the Task Force contrinue to grow."
Keith [to kairosdoug]: thanks but the conference ends tomorrow
kiwi says, "Yes, but that's a good reminder to me, for instance, to
post GRN stuff there."
kairosdoug [to Keith]: then we should put links to the conference
materials and logs
Keith [to ceball]: what things do you see as new areas for the Task
Force?
kiwi nods to kairosdoug.
ceball says, "so that there's a steady network of information being
distributed."
Keith [to kiwi]: yes, it's a good idea
kiwi [to kairosdoug]: ah, yes, that would be helpful!
mday says, "one of our charges used to be putting together a directory
of programs using digital technologies. But that side of teaching
comp has grown so huge it would be impossible to try to catalogue"
kiwi nods to mday.
JenniferB agrees with mday
kiwi [to mday]: the old acw tried that, but it's never really been
possible to keep that up
mday says, "So I think we've had that taken out of our mission"
[ 7:32 pm ]
ceball (to Keith) "but a small way that the 7Cs, and the Task Force,
can help the community is to archive information on the C&Worg site."
kairosdoug [to mday]: maybe we should catalog programs that offer
degrees or concentrations specifically in digital rhetoric, new media,
or computers and writing
Keith [to ceball]: you bet!
mday says, "And, historically, the CC used to be called the Software
Sampler, and we only recently got that changed. hee!"
kiwi [to mday]: yes, that was a good change.
ceball says, "for instance, one of the projects I'd like to see happen
is to update the old P&T case studies that the 7Cs did back when
Dickie was chair."
JenniferB (to kairosdoug) "good idea, you volunteering?"
Susan says, "maybe some sort of databse-driven form where people can
list their own programs, so no one person has to mess with a whole
directory?"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "is there a c's member who is specifically tasked
with managing the computersandwriting online website?"
mday likes Susan's idea, but someone has to make the form.
Keith [to ceball]: oh yeah, tenuring has changed entirely since, oh,
say, 2000 or so...
kairosdoug [to JenniferB]: I'll get right on it. (uh, after I finish my
dissertation)
JenniferB says, "we are working on updating the P&T... "
Quirk (to Susan) "great idea"
Keith [to Susan]: now THAT is an idea
kiwi [to Susan]: one good feature that the old ACW had was where people
could sign up as "members" so people could browse to the list
Keith gives the project to Sussan
ceball (to OoglyBooglyBoo) "no, no one person is in charge. We want it
open, but we also need direction/leadership, so there's the catch
inherent in a lot of the work that the c-and-w field does, eh?"
kairosdoug [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: there's no specific member that manages
it, although I set it up and then I grant admin priveleges as needed
Mak congratulates Susan :)
JenniferB says, "Bob is also working w/ others to create resources for
C&W hosts"
mday says, "yeah cheryl, that was a fantastic project that Cindy and
Dickie Selfe did fantastic work on. We could at least try to find
that stuff and link it, no?"
Keith [to mday]: it's there
OoglyBooglyBoo (to ceball) "yeah that's a tough thing to balance"
Keith says, "it's just needing updating... "
Susan (to Keith) "heh. You have no idea how rusty my ... goodness what
was the name of that software again....?"
ceball (to mday) "and i have offline copies of it just in case"
Keith [to Susan]: good save!
Susan grins
kairosdoug [to kiwi]: you can see the membership of folks who have
accounts on computersandwriting.org
Keith has cited that many a time, including in his tenure package
kiwi [to kairosdoug]: ah, ok.
ceball says, "i wasn't sure if it was still online since it was hosted
on Cindy's MTU website."
kiwi says, "Yeah, i tried to find that recently and couldn't"
Susan (to Keith) "seriously, I forgot the name of it. Maybe after I
move, I can dust off the program"
JenniferB says, "Cindy gave us premission to put it online"
Keith says, "oh that's right"
ceball says, "impt information like that definitely needs to be
archived on C&W.org"
kiwi nods to ceball.
mday says, "One thing that I will say, is that among CCCC committees,
we get top marks for our level of work, involvement, and our reports.
I think few other committees are as active as we are."
Keith [to Susan]: ok cool!
kiwi [to mday]: yup
Keith [to mday]: not nearly from what I hear....
Susan . o O ( writing a form is not too bad, as long as someone can
help get it on a live server someplace. )
Keith says, "how many others support (there's the word I want!) two
major international conferences a year?"
ceball says, "the funny thing about our activity is that I thnk we're
one of the few committees that has a listserv."
kairosdoug has two upcoming tasks that task force members could help
with...
Keith [to Susan]: the logical place is on cw.org
Susan says, "FileMaker Pro. that was it."
mday says, "but it's only due to the enthusiasm and excitement and
involvement of folks such as yourselves"
Susan . o O ( I think )
Keith [to kairosdoug]: what two projects?
booboo would be happy to help in whatever ways possible
Keith [to Susan]: fox?
kairosdoug says, "both are related to the computer connection"
mday [to ceball]: yes, and there's a history to the listserv thing too,
that's kind of interesting
kairosdoug says, "we'll need chairs to chair the CC sessions (3
presentations over a 75 minute period that matches the concurrent
sessions of the conference)"
kiwi nods to mday.
Susan (to Keith) "???"
Keith [to Susan]: Fox Pro?
mday says, "NCTE wanted us to use their bulletin board tool after serv1
server at NCTE that had nobly hosted everything crashed."
Susan says, "nope"
kairosdoug says, "and we'll need to be creating a powerful and
compelling program for the CC"
Keith says, "ah"
Keith laughs
mday says, "but the tool was nearly useless, and nobody came. We have
Eric Crump and Interversity to thank for bailing us out"
Keith nods
ceball just remembered that she was talking to Terry Zawacki at GMU a
few weeks back, who told ceball that she was at the first 5th C SIG in
the early 80s. John Conner, Terry said, (if ceball remembers
correctly) was leading the way then?
kiwi nods to mday.
Keith says, "eric has been great"
kairosdoug [to Susan]: C&W.org is built on Drupal, so it has
database-driven forms built in.
mday publicly thanks and cheers for Eric and Interversity and reminds
all that it operates only through our generosity.
Keith says, "now that's before my time"
ceball (to Keith) "yeah, i was surprised by how early she said it
started."
Keith leads three cheers!
Susan (to kairosdoug) "cool"
JenniferB cheers with Keith
kairosdoug hurrahs!
mday hmms... yes, ACE and 7Cs started up way back then. And the NCTE
Instructional Technology Committee
kiwi remembers that Nick Carbone offered support from BSM for Candw.org
too--is that continuing?
ceball (to kiwi) "yes, Bedford has paid for the domain"
kiwi nods to ceball.
mday says, "As far as I know, BSM pays for the domain name? Right
Doug?"
Keith takes a magic lantern out of its case.
kiwi says, "Good"
Keith loads the slide "7c1" in the magic lantern.
Keith says, "ok then"
Keith says, "that's the past"
mday says, "And Charlie Lowe and Doug and Eric were instrumental in
getting it started"
Keith shows the slide "7c1" on the magic lantern.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
What are future roles for the eight or nine or ten C's?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[ 7:42 pm ]
ceball laughs
kiwi [to Susan]: i could move it to yahoo groups--it's not a very
lively list anyway. :( But can you get me a list of the email
addresses that ARE subscribed?
kiwi [to Susan]: oops.
kairosdoug [to mday]: I'm not in on the funding -- that's Eric's
department, but yes Eric and Charlie and I set up the Drupal config
and the design
Keith will show that slide again in a second...
ceball (to Keith) "one of the things we tried to get started was a new
award"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "what about fostering some kind of contest for
open source developers in the community as part of the open source
task force?"
booboo says, "i've never had any success subscribing to the list"
Keith [to ceball]: for people who cannot type in the community?
booboo says, "so maybe yahoo groups would be a better method"
Keith would vote for the oogly award
kairosdoug [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: that's an excellent idea
Quirk says, "agreed"
ceball wishes the EC had approved the award for junior faculty members,
but only for ones who could type well.
mday [to kairosdoug]: that was the offer and the agreement that was
made at the CW 04 7Cs Task Force meeting.
Keith is on tht task force and woudl be glad to bring it to them
OoglyBooglyBoo (to kairosdoug) "it does not need to be a momentary
award, just a way for people to get their stuff out there"
kiwi says, "As a CCCC Exec Committee member, we're currently looking at
a document on best practices in electronic portfolios. But I wondered
why that didn't come out of 7Cs--or did it?"
Keith can now apply for the oogly award
ceball (to Keith) "it was modeled after the Exemplar Award or the Tech
Innovator award, but was specifically for tenure-track (or
10-year-post-PhD) folks."
mday appoints Oogly chief architect of the new award
Keith counts on fingers and realizes he is eligble, therefore votes for
the award
mday says, "But I will say that CCCC has met our requests for new
"official" awards with a fairly cold shoulder... Sigh."
OoglyBooglyBoo (to mday) "I would be glad to draft something, might
take me until late spring to do something"
ceball says, "i want to talk with Cindy and Gail about taking it over
-- they seem keen on creating awards for good folks lately! "
kiwi nods to ceball.
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "I could collaborate maybe with matt barton on it"
Keith [to ceball]: we need that
mday says, "But unofficial awards that don't have to carry the CCCC
name on them would be great!"
ceball says, "and i think the EC is right to not consider new awards
right now. there's other places where our focus can be of more use."
ceball says, "like with the Open Source and e-portfolio issues"
Keith [to ceball]: such as?
JenniferB nods to mday
Keith nods
kiwi nods to ceball.
Keith says, "and we need to continue to track tenure and access issues"
mday [to ceball]: good idea
Keith says, "those are ongoing"
kiwi agrees with Cheryl.
ceball says, "and, considering the MLA report on evaluating scholarship
that juts came out, and which kinda isn't very keen on e-scholarship
still, there's one place where the 7Cs might could do some more
proscelitizing (sp)"
Keith says, "though tenure is becoming more and more obtainable"
mday says, "There is a CCCC eportfolio committee now, did you know?"
Keith [to ceball]: oh yeah!!!
booboo says, "my thoughts, well-expressed ceball"
JenniferB (to ceball) "good idea"
Keith says, "we should take the position that e is delivery"
Mak [to Keith] why would you say that is?
OoglyBooglyBoo agrees wholheartidly with ceball
kiwi [to mday]: yes, i've got a copy of the best practices document
they drafted.
ceball says, "the e-scholarship, and perhaps the e-portfolio thing is
definitely related, but I juts thought about it, and it would be nice
for us to figure out how we can help the situation"
Keith says, "that looking down on e-scholarship is like saying but that
was delivered by UPS not the post office"
JenniferB laughs
mday [to kiwi]: the chair is Brad Peters, my colleague here at NIU
Keith [to Mak]: oh because if you hire someone to do new media and then
they do it you can hardly complain that they did it
booboo says, "yes, but it's still hurting lots of innovation"
Quirk (to Keith) "nice comparison"
Keith [to Mak]: before, we had to face tenure while carving out new
spaces...
kiwi [to mday]: ah, good. then you have seen it?
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "with the cost of print publishing today, it is
also reinforces an economic barrier to disseminating alternative
scholarship"
Mak [to Keith] I see
Mak nods at Oogly
JenniferB nods to OoglyBooglyBoo
kiwi [to Keith]: yeah, except that when folks hire people to "do" new
media, they often don't know what the hell they're hiring the folks to
do!
Keith [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: yes, that's another reason to focus on
eliminating the difference
kiwi nods to OoglyBooglyBoo.
ceball (to kiwi) "don't i know it!"
Mak [nods at Kiwi
Keith [to kiwi]: but then they can't complain about it becauase then
they'd have to admit that
Keith says, "and no scholar will ever admit they just plain don't know
something!"
kiwi grins at Keith.
kiwi [to Keith]: yeah, they will--when it comes to 'computer stuff'
ceball thinks keith is a glass-half-empty kinda guy on this issue ;)
OoglyBooglyBoo (to kiwi) "yeah I try to always have one foot in one
camp, and the other in the new media camp, and am constantly
explaining where my feet are"
Keith says, "besides, there's the OOOH WOW factor"
mday says, "yes on the MLA, but take a look at the Inside Higher Ed
letter from Catherine Stimson about that report and what it means.
It's pretty hopeful for digital scholarship and new models for getting
t and p. http://insidehighered.com/views/2007/02/06/stimpson"
Keith brought up BrightMOO during his tenure talk... and they went oooh
wow and tenured me
kiwi nods to mday.
booboo nods to mday
Quirk (to mday) "great article--well worth the read"
kiwi says, "Administrators definitely want new media "stuff""
Keith used a touch tone screen during his diss defense and they went
OOO WOW and gave me the phd
ceball says, "no, i disagree on the impact of hte MLA report."
Mak is taking notes here
Keith [to kiwi]: yep
ceball says, "i mean, it's hopeful but in only CERTAIN forms of 'new
media"
OoglyBooglyBoo (to kiwi) "yeah they are hawt for the tech!!"
Keith says, "linear vs hypertext?"
Keith says, "and even more, hypermedia?"
OoglyBooglyBoo (to ceball) "that is so true"
mday says, "OK, but are you referring to STimsons response to it, or
the original report?"
Keith says, "or is that an old-fashioned distinction?"
ceball says, "if one doesn't do 'digital archives' or 'humanities
database' or those things that can be easily quanitifiable as written
text chunked up, then the MLA hasn't even considered it."
Mak just realized notes arent necessary cause the recorder is on
ceball (to mday) "i haven't read Stimpson's response yet. Apologies
there."
JenniferB smiles at Mak
Keith says, "but the stuff you do could be qualified as those thing?"
Susan grins at Mak
Quirk says, "they are still the MLA after all"
Keith [to Mak]: see how wonderful technology is?
Mak smiles at the screen
ceball (to Keith) "some of my work can be qualified as being what the
MLA has in mind, but some of it can'"
ceball says, "that it, some of it cannot"
Keith [to ceball]: yes
Keith says, "but I don't think that report will matter"
kiwi . o O ( mla still thinks you're supposed to include the silly
angle brackets. What do you expect?? )
Keith says, "to me, the report on PUBLISHING is the one that will save
us"
[ 7:52 pm ]
mday says, "Well, you are right Cheryl. Her response is kind of
limiting in the def. of online scholarship too"
ceball says, "and I think the 7Cs can be of help in bringing together
some of the digital humanities scholarship/tenure guidelines that are
out there and taking it to the next level."
booboo lol's at kiwi's allusion
ceball wonders if that's just a self-serving move, tho
Quirk says, "It is getting a ton of press right now"
OoglyBooglyBoo . o O ( <loves kiwi> )
kiwi giggles and wiggles her toes
Keith [to ceball]: now that's for sure and I'd help with that, and I
have tenure
kiwi blushes profusely.
Susan . o O ( All the reasons MLA gives for needing angle brackets are
solved completely by COS, which MLA has been slowly moving to be more
and more like anyway.... )
Keith doesn't think cheryl needs to worry overmuch about tenure?
JenniferB says, "the tenure issue is very important"
kiwi nods to JenniferB.
Quirk says, "so is the angle brackets issue!"
mday says, "OK, would this be a revision of the CCCC guidelines we put
together about 10 years ago, then?"
kiwi [to Quirk]: Yes!!
JenniferB did not mean to belittle the angel brackets
ceball agrees with Keith personally, but her service to the field --
and 7Cs impact on others in the field who might have to worry -- is of
greater concern.
Keith says, "i think the publishing reports saying maybe they don't
need books to be successful scholars begins to open the door to new
ways of thinking about tenure."
kiwi grins at JenniferB.
LL laughs at term angel brackets
mday wants to belittle the hell out of the angle brackets
Keith [to mday]: yes
LL is very interested and listening
ceball (to mday) "yes!"
kiwi says, "wELL, MLA is trying to "bracket" work with tech for tenure,
too--same idea"
Keith rips the brackets off of his keyboard and eats them
JoelB has disconnected.
mday says, "OK, it's about time we did that. it's been a decade."
ceball thinks kiwi is rawkin'
JenniferB also laughs at her typo
Mak laughs at Keith
kiwi . o O ( and the 2nd ed of The Columbia Guid just came out--and I
think it's good (self praise??) )
ceball nods that it has been a decade and thinks 'wow, how time flies!'
mday says, "and things have changed some."
Susan says, "angle brackets have a very important role to play--in HTML
code-- they should not be relegated to citations"
Keith mumbles, "what brackets?"
ceball reminds herself that Kairos is over 10 years old now
Keith says, "so what could we do about tenure?"
Quirk says, "They also make great hats"
mday agrees with susan. Put them to use where they belong, in html
code
kiwi nods to mday.
ceball also kicks herself for adding more work to the 7Cs plate
Keith is speaking of the 7cs
Mak agrees with Quirk
JenniferB hands Keith some for the upset stomach he is sure to have
kiwi is thankful for MOO logs so we don't have to take notes....
Mak is wearing one right now
ceball (to Keith) "it sounds, like mday said, that we need to revisit
the 10-year-old guidlines and also update the case studies based on
what we find"
booboo . o O ( some kind of published, approved statement that
lists/discusses the range of work )
mday says, "Well, we need a subcommittee to revisit the old CCCC
guidelines and make a recommendation"
kiwi nods to ceball.
Keith hates to take on more work but would serve on that
JenniferB nods to mday
booboo says, "apologizes for the 1/2 statement"
ceball (to booboo) "we understood :)"
booboo says, "hubby is screaming upstairs about dinner stuff"
Keith says, "yeah, those would fall into nice two step plan"
Susan would liek to help
ceball (to booboo) "tell him you have to change the world first"
mday grins at Keith. So Keith, would you be point person? And maybe
put out a call for volunteers?
booboo (to ceball) "thank goodness he's used to this"
OoglyBooglyBoo LOLs at Cheryl
JenniferB says, "the P&T work is one thing I have an my plate as a task
force co-chair"
mday says, "And remember, for now, we are just looking at these things.
CCCC might have to approve us doing anything official, god forbid"
booboo would be happy to help also
Keith says, "but not the cccc statement"
kiwi [to mday]: at least now i can help support 7cs on the ec
ceball (to Keith) "i would be happy to help and/or take the lead on
this. I'm supposed to be working on an article about it anyways"
Keith [to JenniferB]: would you mind if others started that work? or
are they so closely linked they can't be separated
mday says, "sorry keith, what about not the cccc statement? I lost the
thread here."
ceball (to kiwi) "congrats!"
Keith [to ceball]: if you do I would serve
mday cheers for Janice, now on the EC! Woo hoo!
Keith has been interested in tenure issues forever
kiwi [to ceball]: or maybe condolences....
Quirk (to kiwi) "kudos!"
ceball says, "well, this is something that we can talk about more on
the 7Cs and 7Cs-l lists after this evening too. "
ceball says, "i mean, that we can organize after this evening"
ceball says, "but i'd be happy to take the lead"
Keith [to ceball]: ok then
kiwi nods to ceball.
mday thinks all can work on it, as long as they stay connected. No
sense in reinventing the wheel.
mday cheers for and thanks Cheryl
ceball nods
Keith shows the slide "7c1" on the magic lantern.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Any questions about hosting the conferences?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
JenniferB (to Keith) "I would be happy to hand it off and take a
supporting role. My plate runneth over right now."
kairosdoug says, "it seems to me that Jennifer and Keith can coordinate
where their efforts connect (that would be the first step)"
ceball says, "by lead, i mean start the emailing spree ;)"
mday [to JenniferB]: I know what you mean!
kiwi grins at ceball.
Keith [to JenniferB]: suggest that on the list -- maybe we need a
subcommittee
Keith [to ceball]: yah!
ceball will remember to get folks like booboo involved.
booboo says, "unofficially, of course :)"
mday says, "So, can we agree that messages related to this go to the
7C-L list? Are all of you subbed?"
ceball (to booboo) "as part of the Task Force :)"
booboo says, "i still don't get anything from the lists"
Keith says, "which you could do officially, if you wanted...."
Susan says, "where is the sub link?"
kairosdoug says, "I haven't seen 7C message in a long time -- has it
just been quiet or did I get unsubbed somehow?"
mday says, "Oh, but..."
Keith says, "for the task force?"
mday says, "Interversity is changing servers"
Keith says, "oh I sent two today"
booboo says, "subbed twice in the last 6 months...nada"
mday says, "That's why no messages."
Keith says, "and there's been tons about cw online 08"
Keith says, "which leads us to our last subject..."
Keith tries again
kairosdoug [to Keith]: I saw two messages on the 7cmem list, but not
the 7c-l list
mday says, "But, go to interversity.org and click on discussion groups
or lists"
[ 8:03 pm ]
mday says, "when the server is back up."
Keith shows the slide "7c1" on the magic lantern.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Any questions about hosting the conferences?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
mday says, "and there's a link to subbing to 7C-L"
Keith [to kairosdoug]: oh thanks that's right, I forgot which list i'm
on
ceball wonders sillily if oogly or keith have questions...
mday giggles with ceball
Keith says, "we probably have some advice"
JenniferB smiles at ceball w/ similar thoughts
Keith says, "don't host cw online!"
OoglyBooglyBoo wonders if this time of year is good for cwonline, what
with all the job searches and stuff
ceball says awww!
kiwi [to Keith]: have we been "collecting" advise from cwonline hosts
like we do from cw f2f hosts?
booboo laughs
mday grins at Keith
Keith says, "no, I'm kidding about that... there are some things that
we would now do differently"
kiwi nods to Keith.
Quirk says, "do tell"
Keith says, "i wonder about accepting the number of asynch convo we
did"
mday says, "I just don't know when IS a good time if this isn't. It's
always busy for me."
booboo thinks asynchron is always going to be a problem
Keith says, "it was probably a great idea to ask for papers, but
getting folks to post has been a REAL BEAR.... even though I sent
prompts to all the presenters"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "yes we're having trouble getting peeps involved
in the asynchronous conversations"
Keith says, "the synch convos have been great"
mday says, "and I keep thinking that I want to join the asynch, but
there's only so much I can do on top of work."
booboo says, "part of the prob is time and the lack of an RSS feed :)"
OoglyBooglyBoo (to mday) "same here"
Keith says, "we have two great transcripts from the GRN today, one on
getting into a phd program, one on the job market"
Keith [to booboo]: you got that right!
JenniferB (to Keith) "Cool!"
OoglyBooglyBoo (to booboo) "that is a great idea. I just don't know how
to set one of those up"
Keith says, "but"
mday is hungry. A good old-tyme RSS feed sounds wonderful about now.
Mak [to Keith] would definitely like to see those
kiwi [to Keith]: some of the papers were posted very late, which didn't
help (through no fault of yours)
Keith says, "i wouldn NOT move the conference back to on top of cw"
LL looks forward to reading job market transcript
Keith says, "that didn't work for either sync or asynch"
booboo says, "true"
Keith says, "at least for me"
kiwi nods to Keith.
OoglyBooglyBoo (to Keith) "no I would not either. I think that people
will be busy whenever we host it"
booboo says, "but there's got to be some mechanisms to report on the
f2f conference ideas"
Keith agrees with booboo that asynch is a problem. I would only do 3 or
4 at most
kiwi thinks the asynch. papers might work better as an rss/bloggie
thingie
mday agrees with Keith. Def. not at the same time.
Keith [to kiwi]: we tried to set up a blog
booboo nods to kiwi...that's what i was suggesting
kiwi nods to booboo.
mday says, "So the trick is to make it possible for ppl to participate
without having to spend huge amounts of time"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "the mechnics of passwords and stuff like that got
really complicated"
ceball (to booboo) "i wonder if we couldn't do reviews of the CW
presentations like they do for the CCCC sessions?"
Keith says, "now that blogger is part of google, it's very difficult.
before it was soo easy"
OoglyBooglyBoo nods at mday
kairosdoug says, "how long will the asynchronous discussions of papers
last? I'm hoping that they will run longer than the conference itself
(I just now have time to contribute)"
booboo nods to keith
kiwi says, "Yeah, email clogs up these days, so I think that could be
part of what's hurting the asynch"
Keith [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: what do you think?
booboo fast falling out of heavy like with google
Keith is pretty tired right now
kiwi grins at booboo.
OoglyBooglyBoo (to booboo) "glad to know that I am not the only one"
mday [to ceball]: at least it would get the word out about what was
said, in summary.
kairosdoug [to ceball]: we should do that
kiwi thought the asynch only went through tomorrow too?
Keith [to kiwi]: tht is the case
Quirk (to booboo) "agreed--poor youtube"
ceball (to kairosdoug) "did i just add more work to that plate too?"
ceball smacks herself on the head
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "in theory the asynch will be up for a while, as
long as the groupd go and we keep the papers posted"
Keith could add folks as moderators so HE doesn't have to keep joining
folks
kairosdoug [to ceball]: not necessarily...the reviews will still have
to be figured out, but the running could be the same team for Cs and
C&W online and onsite
mday [to kairosdoug]: yeah, I think letting ppl have more time to
comment on the asynch would help. Like after the synch sessions are
done, I have every hope of going back and reading and responding
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "what would be nice would be to develop some kind
of premade vwonline software package"
Keith says, "today I had two folks asking to join seven asynch
conferences each; I wrote back and said are you sure? this is ending
tomorrow"
ceball says, "if we (meaning Kairos, sorry, switching hats for a sec)
published CW session reports like we will be doing for the CCCC
reviews with Will Hochman, then reviewers could get publication
credit."
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "that people could just plug and play; like with
blogs and rss"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "mailing lists and the like"
Keith [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: yes
booboo says, "good idea, cheryl"
Keith says, "any task force member want to take that over?"
OoglyBooglyBoo has no idea how to acually do that however
Keith has a zillion other projects that need doing
kiwi [to ceball]: we could publish them in CandC too, perhaps?
Keith says, "we would help by providing contact information"
ceball (to kiwi) "well, i ain't responsible for that ;)"
kairosdoug says, "another option, and this is a 7C possibility, is to
start a paper series (like the WIDE center is doing here at MSU) --
the papers are peer-reviewed and commented on ... just like the C&W
papers"
mday says, "Right. We can brainstorm all we want, but without some
person or people to do it, well..."
Keith [to kairosdoug]: we have all the papers and will archive them
ceball (to kairosdoug) "no no no, the NCTE cmte on tech comm is trying
to do that and it's gonna be TOO much work for a cmte to take on"
kiwi [to ceball]: yeah, none of us are...
ceball (to kairosdoug) "not to be a spoil-sport, but if we want to
archive discussions from the conferenes, it needs to happen outside of
7Cs. Maybe it's a task force thing with Kairos (or Kairos Projects) as
the publication medium Just like Rich did with the video feeds this
year"
kairosdoug [to ceball]: maybe Kairos Projects (if I ever get it
started) could host the paper series...
Keith says, "I think I speak for Oogly when I say we're pretty well
committed to ending the conference when we said it would: tomorrow at
9 pm CST"
ceball says, "lol, great minds"
kiwi nods to Keith.
Keith blanches at the idea of continuing the aysnch convos...
mday agrees with cheryl about it not being 7cs
kiwi [to Keith]: You've done a great job
Keith [to kiwi]: thanks
mday says, "and with keith about being timely"
ceball says, "keith and oogly both"
Susan says, "hmmm. but these are good ideas for future online
conferences"
kiwi nods to mday.
[ 8:13 pm ]
mday thanks Keith and kevin very much
kiwi [to Susan]: yup
Keith says, "the convos will be there"
kiwi cheers KandK
mday cheers for all of you, and thanks you for coming!
OoglyBooglyBoo (to Keith) "yeah I have a f2f conference next week, for
which I have not even started my presentation!"
ceball wonders what's new about that for any of us ;)
kairosdoug thanks Keith and Kevin -- really great conference (even
though I haven't been able to participate as much, what with the
getting-a-job thing)
Keith says, "and I can post the urls for joining to techrhet and seven
c... I don't mind approving memberships"
kiwi grins at ceball.
mday says, "but remember, if you are not subbed to 7C-L, please do it,
and we will continue discussion there"
kiwi [to kairosdoug]: priorities :)
OoglyBooglyBoo (to kairosdoug) "I understand completely--good luck on
your job search!"
Keith [to OoglyBooglyBoo]: and our special issue of interdisciplinary
humanities!
OoglyBooglyBoo (to Keith) "darn it I had almost forgotten about that"
mday cheers for those on the job market, including John, who is on an
interview as we speak!
ceball says, "thanks all. does this mean we're wrapping up? does this
mean I can go watch Ugly Betty now?"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "oh I hope John does well!"
Keith says, "we are!"
kiwi [to ceball]: it's over here :(
Susan does too
booboo thanks all for opening the meeting to all
mday is going to collapse home hopefully into a plate of food
Keith says, "ask recorder for text if you want a transcript"
booboo says, "it's been very informative"
ceball says, " OH, don't forget!"
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "thank you all for coming and participating"
Keith waits a few seconds for people to do that
mday is all ears
kairosdoug [to ceball]: only if you watch the original betty la fea --
much better!
OoglyBooglyBoo says, "and thanks fo the help with the GRN!"
ceball says, "the 5th C SIG is an open meeting just like this --
Thursday 6:30-7:30 during Cs"
Quirk (to mday) "enjoy the brief time away from Reavis!"
Mak thanks everyone for a great 'first MOO experience'
Keith [to Mak]: see you at school!
OoglyBooglyBoo cheers at Mak
mday says, "oh yeah, come to the 5th C!"
Mak [to Keith] indeed!
mday says, "thanks cb!"
OoglyBooglyBoo wishes he was in Louisiana now for Mardi Gras
Keith says, "thanks, all!"
Mak smiles at everyone
mday says, "And the Computer Connection!"
ceball chants "come to the 5th C SIG and continue to help"
JenniferB nods to Ceball "yes everyone come!
kiwi says, "Oh, yeah, and I have about $5500 to give away for C&W/GRN
this year (so far)"
mday says, "and always support the GRN!"
Keith says, "and on that note..... we turn the recorder off, thanks to
allllll!"
booboo says, "is the time/location listed in the c's program?"
Quirk says, "I'll be there--looking forward to it!"
kiwi says, "Get me graduate students/presenters!"
[log closed]